Editor’s Note: Last Wednesday, Feb. 23, Russia launched a seemingly unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. As the week has progressed, stories have been emerging about life in these warring countries. Prep News Web Editor Luke Duffy sat down with SLUH teachers Marina Chura, a native of Russia, and her husband Rob to better understand the complexity of the war in Ukraine and its impact on various populations. 

 

Luke Duffy (LD): I guess we’ll start with how did you feel when Russia invaded Ukraine? What was your initial reaction?

 

Marina Chura (MC): Very shocked. We really had not anticipated that outcome, just like a lot of people in Europe thought that this was just Putin kind of bluffing and that this was a big political chess game. We really did not expect that this was going to happen. He seemed to be more rational to me than somebody that would lead these two countries to something like this.

 

Robert Chura (RC): Yeah, I've probably heard 25 different versions of the same thing that I felt. People who are experts and were close to the situation, everybody felt like, we haven't seen this before, but these things always kind of follow the same pattern. There's a lot of emotion and threats, but in the past there has always been some way to avoid a major conflict like this. I was confident that this might be prolonged, this might be really uncomfortable, this might create a lot of fear in the world, but I just could never imagine that we would get to this point where Russia is actually invading Ukraine

 

LD: Between the US, other NATO countries, and Russia, there has been a lot of tension over the past few weeks, and the Russian government has a lot of control over communication. I'm assuming you have some friends and relatives in Russia. Have you been able to contact them at all?

 

MC: Yeah, I had some pretty extensive conversations with my brother and with my mom, and then I was a witness of (Mr. Chura’s) conversation with a teacher friend that we have over there and we've been in contact with some other friends. These are all people that represent our side, who are pretty disgusted by the whole thing and have always been kind of anti-Putin. I guess I haven't actually spoken to somebody who supports this. But from what I understand there are a lot of people in Russia that do.

 

LD: So you get the sense that there are people who disagree with what Putin is doing, but there are also people who buy into his rhetoric?

 

MC: Right, and the people who buy into it, I just want to emphasize that, for the most part, they are not bad people and they don't want an actual war. However, the way it's presented in Russian news is that it's in no way war, that there are no attacks going on. In fact, their news media is prohibited from using the words “war” and “attack.” It's presented as a special military operation that is meant to defend the independent republics of Luhansk and Donetsk and to protect the Russian people who are being viciously attacked in Ukraine.

 

RC: People are people. The Russian people and the Ukrainian people are some of the greatest people that I know. This is not about the Russian people or the Ukrainian people, it has nothing to do with that. The fact that people are on board with this is because they've been led to believe that this is something that they are called to do: to protect people that are close to them, and to protect their brother Slavs and Ukrainians who are being suppressed and are in danger. That's the way that it's being presented.

I think that tells you a little bit about the Russian soul. They're not going to get on board with something that they believe is wrong. They believe it's right because of that emotional tie to these people that they identify with, that they believe are in danger. When it's explained to them that way, they think, “We've got to do something to help these people that are like brothers to us.” Obviously we see it in a different way, it’s depicted much differently to us.

 

MC: It also depends on where in Russia you are. In big cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg especially, there are more people who are a little bit more worldly and well-educated and who have access to many other sources of information, so they don't trust the Russian news. My brother, for example, has said that he has not watched state television in about 10 years. Because he knows that their rhetoric is all skewed.

 

LD: Have you been able to visit Russia at all during Putin's presidency? 

 

MC: Oh, we go every year.

 

LD: What have you observed? Has there been any change in Russian culture and society under Putin?

 

MC: Well, he has been in charge for the last 22 years. Russia became a much more prosperous society under him and that's a big part of why he is so well-liked. When you talk about Russian election results a few years back, those weren't skewed elections. I mean, those were, for the most part, legitimate results. People felt like he brought Russia out of the chaos of the ’90s, that the economy was strong, the Russian middle class was growing. From some of the reading and listening to podcasts that I have picked up, that growth kind of ended in about 2013. Instead of focusing on those economic problems to make sure that that stagnation stops, he chose this way of looking for an external enemy, and that's how he tried to rally people behind him. As far as just everyday life I mean, what do you think?

 

RC: I mean the Russia that we've experienced is very stable, and has a very good standard of living. From that standpoint, those are all things that I think contributed to his popularity.

 

LD: Would you say Putin's way of running the country has not directly affected you or Russia until the past few years?

 

MC: Well I would say not until just five or six days ago, really.

 

LD: So, looking toward the future, do you have any fears about returning to Russia, or for your friends and relatives in Russia? What do you think life is going to be like going forward?

 

MC: I don't think I have any fear as far as political persecution or anything like that. Number one, my main fear is that I don't know when I'll be able to go back because, right now, there is no travel to Russia. Number two, I'm just mostly concerned about the welfare of the people. Because the sanctions that started have already had a huge effect, and it could lead to an economic disaster. Russia cannot survive without the rest of the world.That's just what the modern world is like. And it seems like they're going to go back to being an agrarian society. This is a very negative prognosis if that were to happen.

 

RC: My main concerns are just the amount of human suffering on all sides of this. It is already happening, and it will continue to happen. As you said, this is going to be felt everywhere, and some places are going to feel it more than others, but when you watch the news reports on TV, I'm sure to your eye it looks like someplace very, very far away. It is foreign to you. To me, it's too familiar. When I see the bombed out buildings and the things happening in the streets, I know those places all too well. It's like it's happening in my backyard, it's like it's happening in my neighborhood, because I'm so close to that experience and that setting. 

Talking with relatives and friends and colleagues about what they're experiencing, it's just all too real. It currently is and has the potential to be so horrific for those at the epicenter of it, but it will also have ripple effects that we all feel even if it's not so much financially, but psychologically, this is scary. This is the first time we've seen something like this in our lifetimes. It's very difficult to imagine and think about some of the possibilities. (Eyes well up with tears.) 

You know, in my role as Director of Global Ed, that’s one of the things that I've always really tried to focus on is for us to understand how we really are a global community. We're all global citizens, more so than we are citizens of our own nations. More and more in this world that we live in, everything that happens everywhere touches everyone. We saw that with the pandemic. When those types of things happened 10 or 20 years ago, it was like, ‘I'm glad I don't live in that part of the world.’ But now we've seen that it’s everywhere, we all are a global community. And Ukraine is yet another example. We can use that as a positive to rally us and bring us together and for us to find those common threads. In my email tagline you see I quote, Maya Angelou, “we are more alike than we are unalike.” When things go wrong, there's the other side of it where it really impacts everyone negatively in so many ways.

 

MC: I wanted to add, when you asked about my initial feelings, that I definitely did feel some guilt and shame. I am a citizen of both countries of Russia and the US. And it just felt like it can't be happening, my country cannot really be doing that. (Pauses, choked up. But then I have to remember it's not my country. It's not Russia, it's one person. Of course you can say that the country is behind that person, and that's where I guess the guilt and shame is coming from, but people being misinformed is, I think, the main reason that it had led to this point. 

Of course, there are a lot of measures being taken against Russia and it hurts when I hear about athletes being banned from participating in sporting and sporting events, musicians not being allowed to participate in musical events. To me, it kind of transcends the situation. But on the other hand, I understand that some things have to hurt really bad before things can change.

 

RC: Those are the things that I hope we can continue to engage in and promote. We've had our relationship with our Russian partners for decades, and that's been a big part of our school community. So much good has come from that human contact. Politics is politics, and those are things that happen beyond our control, but focusing on that one-to-one human interaction, to me, is the only way to really put things back in order.

 

MC: I feel like it's true also for people in Russia interacting with people from Ukraine because there are so many connections there. Both he and I are half Ukrainian, ethnically. One of my mom’s best friends lives in Ukraine, and she actually happened to be in London when this was happening and wasn't able to get back to her city. It was interesting because she was very upset about that, that she couldn't get back even though she knew a war was going on. My mom's cousin also lives in Kiev. So there are so many connections that people have like that.

 

LD: Finally, from your perspective, Mr. Chura, is there anything SLUH students can do to show their support?

 

RC: I think one of the major points of this is to commend our student leaders of One World Club and Mrs. Campos And Mrs. Alvarado. We have One World Club as kind of like our in house SLUH Global Ed experience. They look at how we can focus efforts in the school, not just to do things externally, but internally to really build those global competencies and perspectives. 

When this all began, it was the leadership of One World Club that came together and said, “what can we do, let's put together some kind of SLUH-wide response.” We've been working on that for the past couple of days, and we have some things planned next week to raise some support for the relief effort. I'm in touch with the priest who's in charge of the Jesuit response in Poland right now. He's given us some ways that we can financially help their efforts to ease the suffering because they're obviously dealing with the refugee crisis right now, with all the Ukrainians fleeing to Poland. 

On March 10, we have planned a roundtable after school with SLUH alumni experts as well as some people who are right there in the middle of this: a friend of ours from St. Petersburg, and then some other people who are very close to the situation. The focus is going to be on educating everyone about this situation, how it came about, then also on the human experience, like what's really going on. We obviously see that we're bombarded with all kinds of different information. The positive that we hope to come out of this is to do what we can as a community and just as individuals to ease the suffering and to bring it to an end and see that it doesn't happen again. That'll be Thursday, March 10 after school.